Job Number 180054, Part 2

One thing I didn't mention in the part one post for this project, is this little piece of metal.

One removing the movement from the case, this fell out of someplace. I found it on the bench. I would guess that it was either in the crown as a spacer to make the crown sit further out when screwed down "fully", it it was in the movement, in the winding arbor, to make the stem press in further. Either way, it's a kludge.

There is a barely perceptible flaw in the hour hand - a slight bend right at the boss. These are the riskiest to fix so I am leaving it. These hands are extremely soft, fragile and scarce.

Now to test the rate for a few days...

I am still not sure what's up with the case. The crown seems a little on the small side given the thickness of the neck of the case. That makes it a little hard to snap out.

On the other hand, if the crown were larger then the bow would have to be larger too.

In any event, replacing this crown would be hard due to the large thread size on the stem. Last time I needed one that large, it had to be custom made. On yet another hand, is the stem "original"? Probably not, or at least it is not one that would work as found with this movement given that it's clearly been altered, and still didn't work. Who knows. There is no right answer. Antique watches have been through countless changes by this time.

See the entire album for this watch here.

Job Number 180076

New arrival, job number 180076, in the queue...

Job Number 180054, Part 1

This one is a really nice looking watch. But under the surface...

First of all it would not go into winding mode when the crown is snapped in. This generally means that the stem, part of the case (see "negative setting", here), does not go in far enough.

On most American watch cases, the stem sits in a sleeve. The sleeve is threaded into the neck of the case. By turning the sleeve in and out it's depth into the watch movement can be adjusted.

This case has a cap threaded down over the neck of the case. Unscrewing that allows the stem and sleeve to be removed.

On this case the sleeve, shown here, is not threaded. It just sits in there. The cap hold it in.

The stem depth, which does not work for this watch, is not adjustable! 

Here are all the parts in play here; the crown, the cap, the sleeve and the stem. Interestingly, the cap, machined brass, looks really new. It looks like someone may have made it recently.

It's worth pointing out once again at this point that Elgin never made pocketwatch cases (in general, there are some rare exceptions).  In those days, the common practice was that a customer would pick out a movement and a case separately at the shop and the watchmaker or jeweler would assemble them together.  Because of that the movement and the case don't go together in any way. There were not manufactured to work together, although the degree of standardization at the time was remarkable.

Here is a detail image of the sleeve. We can see the "fingers" at the right end that snap over a shoulder in the stem. The snap action on a negative setting watch is entirely a function of the case.

It's interesting to note that the top part has threads. These don't thread into anything.

This shows the crown, which threads on to the stem, the cap, and the top of the sleeve.

The stem...

The square tip of the stem, the part that goes into the movement has been altered with a file looks like.

Assembled, the crown sits really high.

In order to stand a chance at making this work, I need a stem that will go further down into the watch movement (longer at the square end). This is tricky. The stem this case needs is already not only unusually long, but also really large.

In addition, as shown above, the crown needs really a really big threaded end to fit on. I have to go through all the very largest stems I have to find one candidate replacement.

The stem below is the original. The one above I will alter to fit.

When comparing stems, the key is to line up that shoulder that the sleeve snaps over, as the are here. That point you can't move, although the other ends can be shortened or otherwise changed.

I needed to make several changes. First, the square end of my replacement was too large, and a bit long.

Here the upper stem is the original. Note again how it's been changed by whomever was in this mess last. The below stem is my replacement, as I modified it.

Changes like this are a tedious process of trial and error. You have to be extremely careful and go slowly frequently testing the fit. Remove too much material, and it's ruined. You can't put metal back. 

I also shortened the crown end so the crown would sit low enough. Too low though, and the crown will not snap down fully.

With all this down, the case correctly throws the movement from setting the winding - but barely. The crown almost can't go down far enough because of the way it fits over that brass cap.

Hard to say what the story is with this case, but it definitely wasn't made for a movement like this one.

Now on to the movement itself.

The only odd thing to note are a set of raised divots under the pallet bridge. People do this (unfortunately) to adjust the end-shake of the moving part, the pallet fork in this case.

I see this all the time under balance cocks. But if I've ever seen it done for a pallet fork I can't think of when. I can't imagine why this would be needed.

Indeed, the divots have also been filed down again, flat.

Here's the underside of the three-fingered bridge, showing the secondary serial number stamp.

This is a is a grade 338 Elgin, 16 size, 17 jewels, made about 1910. 

Job Number 180050

Here's an Illinois Watch Company grade 304, 16 size, 17 jewels, made about 1912. 

It's a private label, "Mermod-Jaccard & King, St Louis" on the dial,
"Standard, St. Louis, USA" on the movement. 

See the entire album for this project here.

Nice looking bridge layout on these... As usual on American watches, the separate fingers 4th and escape are false. It's really one part.

The watch movement's serial number is hand scribed at the factory on the underside of an arm of the balance wheel.

I enjoy seeing signs like this of a human connection in the manufacture of this antique.

Job Number 180052

This was a fairly uneventful project, for a change, and a watch that ended up running extremely well. Or at least it's running well immediately after the service. We'll see how it does after a few days.

This is a grade 303, 12 size, 7 jewels, made about 1926. 

See the album for this project here.

Job Number 180048 (Straighten Bent Hands) and 180072

New arrival, job number 180072...

Job number 180048 needed all the hands straightened.

There are a few tricks to doing this without snapping the hands (although that still happens). One is to use the tweezers well open, tips on either side of the hand with one tip at the bent point. A twist then allows precise control.

When the bent is close to the boss like these, it's harder. I held the boss in parallel pliers, and in a tool used to hold hands while adjusting then hole, and just worked really slowly, a little at a time.

I find that steel of course can be very brittle, but it does in a strange way, want to go back to it's original shape.

Job Number 180048

This is an Elgin is a grade 301, 12 size, 7 jewels, made about 1906.

This movement had been without a case for quite some time I am told. In spite of that, it is in pretty good shape, aside from a little rust. I replaced the exposed wheels.

I'll be locating a suitable case.

See the entire album here.