Job Number 260010

Cleaning up the hands...

The crystal replaced, it's now ready for a few days of testing...

Elgin serial number 20361371 is a grade 313, 16 size, 15 jewels, made about 1918.

Follow the album for this project here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jq8yTLH8FSSpvU6q8

Job Number 260010

The yellowed plastic crystal on this on caused corrosion on the hands. I may be able to clean this up, we'll see. Other internal parts were OK.

Old formulations of plastics did this as they also turned themselves green, yellow or even sometimes blue. Modern watch crystal replacements, that aren't glass, are plexiglass and don't have this problem.

Elgin serial number 20361371 is a grade 313, 16 size, 15 jewels, made about 1918.

Follow the album for this project here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jq8yTLH8FSSpvU6q8

Job Number 220048

Rust is a bad sign of course, but on vintage watches it is usually not as bad as it looks. Except in extreme instances, rust does not harm the nickle plated brass or gold parts.

The movement cleaned up well. This is a grade 399, 5/0 size, 15 jewels, made about 1914. It's a Lady Raymond movement, which is a little unusual.

The stem was completely rusted into the sleeve. In fact in was tricky to get the sleeve out of the case. A drop of penetrating oil allowed me to separate the parts.

The stem I cleaned up in the lathe. The sleeve had to be replaced.

The movement had a loose cannon pinion, but ran quite well.

The watch works really well, especially for a wristwatch of this early time.

See the album for this project here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/D5c6mvewdpueCzB69

Job Number 200006, 18 Size Dueber Watch Company

This is a Dueber Watch Company pocketwatch, 18 size, 17 jewels, model 4, "Grand", made about 1904.

To begin we have a discolored acrylic crystal and some rust damage on the hands.

Early types of plastics used for what they called “unbreakable” watch crystals tint with age. Yellow is the most common color but you’ll also see blue and green tones. The problem with this is that the plastic degases corrosion fumes while this is happening. Hands are almost always damaged and sometimes destroyed. The damage can spread too, to the cannon pinion, center wheel and other steel parts just inside the center.

Old plastic crystals that have changed color like this are probably long done releasing corrosive gases, but I don’t know. They should probably be replaced with glass, or modern plexiglass crystals which do not have this problem.

This movement has a really elegant tangential pallet (the older, English style escapement design).

For some reason this little flat spring seems to often be broken. It’s shown here loose, a replacement installed nearby. This spring doesn’t do much. It compresses when the lever is in just to give a little tactile feedback, and slightly hold the lever in.

Unfortunately I was not able to save the minute hand. This is a different one that I was able to fit. As usual when making the hole in the boss larger I over-shot and had to make it a little smaller again. I always seem to do that…

Project link (all the posts):
https://pluspora.com/tags/200006_et

Follow all the projects in detail here:
https://pluspora.com/tags/elgintime

And the album for this project is here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uD3uxSFQ4irjJigQ9

Job Number 170004

This watch is a Waltham 6 size, 7 jewel, Seaside model 1873-6, made 1888-1889. It is lever-set and extensive work has been done to get it into the case it's in.

It also has some pretty bad rust issues. Here are some "before" images to start with.

The mainspring is broken in several places.

Rust has spread to the pallet fork, and more. In my experience though, this sort of thing is not as bad as it looks. It should clean up.

 After some initial cleaning, we can evaluate were the real problems are. A lot of what looks bad in a watch, when it comes to rust, is really quite loose and comes right off. Some of it is also just staining, which will also come of. Much of a vintage watch movement is brass, gold, or nickle plated. Rust does not seriously damage those materials, except in the most extreme cases.

For many steel parts I'll be going over them with a little piece of emery paper, folded to be able to reach into corners, and the parts will be usable. The escape wheel is totaled though.

But although the escape wheel is gone, the others will be OK I think. A quick trip to the lathe helps with cleaning and polishing to get the small amount of corrosion gone.

Fitting this movement into the case was tricky. It's one of these types with no snap in/out mechanism in the neck of the case, but rather a screw that holds the stem in. It's in fair shape, but only barely aligns. There is a pin in the case edge opposite that has a matching hole in the inside case rim, and a couple small cut-outs to allow for the setting lever; one for the lever and a smaller one for a spot were the other end of the lever sticks out just a little when it's retracted. It's all been very carefully fit, and it all barely works out.

Here is how the case has been adjusted to allow for the setting lever.

The watch has an unusual thick, snap on, front bezel. A notch has been made to access the lever without removing the front. This makes it even harder to set.

Now to test the rate for a few days... I'm not looking for anything spectacular on this one, but it runs.

See all the images for this project here:
https://goo.gl/photos/Nix3c5kbcYGfUCNQ9

Elgin Grade 354

This one started out with some rust in specific spots were moisture has gotten in. The watch has definitely been without a crystal for awhile. On antiques, crystals are far from complete protection from water, but they help a lot.

The rust cleaned up well in this case.

This movement is Elgin's grade 354, 0 size, 15 jewels, made about 1910.

Waltham Part 2

This is part 2 of a 2 part post, with a lot of pictures. Find part 1 here!

The 4th wheel carries the second hand on an this, extra long pivot that sticks out on the dial side. This one was broken off.

Here's a replacement 4th wheel, with the broken one, and the box of unidentified 4th wheels I was lucky enough to find it in. The 4th wheel carries the seconds hand. As the photo shows, the long shaft that sticks up through the dial for the hand was broken off.

I have found over the years that rust damage is often not as bad as it looks. Except in extreme instances, rust does not damage gold, brass and nickle plated parts. They can clean up quite well.

It took a lot of work to get the balance assembly into shape, but is worked out well in the end.

Moving on to the case, there are more problems. In addition to rust, the stem was broken off, and the crown gone. Here is the old stem and the one I plan to replace it with. It is not exactly right. No surprise there, stems are all over the map and almost always have to be customized to fit.

This photo is the sleeve, the old stem and the new stem. These parts go into the neck of the case. The important thing is that the part of the stem that the sleeve snaps over when the crown is pulled out is in the same place relative to the end of the square part (left end). The different lengths of the thicker round part, just following the square part, is not important as this is not a hunter case.

The main thing I can tell right way is that the threaded end of the candidate part is too long.

 In addition to the stem being too long, the hole in the crown I want to use is too small. This tool holds the crown firmly so different threads can be tapped straight in. This set also comes with drills, but in this case, the fit is close so the tap alone will do the job.

I rarely have to do this, but when I do having the right tool makes a huge difference.

This multi-tipped wench is used to adjust the depth of the sleeve in the neck of the case.

The stem snaps into the sleeve from the inward end, and the sleeve is then screwed into the neck of the case using a special wrench with ends for various types of sleeves.

Note the shiny steel were I shortened the threaded end of the stem.

The stem snaps in and out in the sleeve. To get the watch to go into setting and winding mode correctly, the overall depth of the sleeve can be adjusted in and out so that in is in enough for winding, and out is out enough for setting.

On this one, the replacement crown can not go down enough to snap into setting. The inner post in the crown is too thick and touch the top of the sleeve.

In the lathe the inner part of the crown can be cut down shorter. So there is room for the crown to snap down into setting mode. There is another special tool for this to hold the crown.

This is a slow process because it has to be cut and tested over and over. It is critical not to remove too much material - you can't put it back.

In this photo, the inside/underside of the crown is visible, clamped in a holder that fits the lathe. This holder comes as a set of several different sized outer pieces for different sized crowns.

Moving on to the bow, these two pliers are tools for opening and closing bows on pocket watch cases. They are needed for installing, removing or tightening that ring on top of the watch case.

The case this watch has is in not the best condition as we've seen, but it is a very unusual type. It is a swing-out, where the stem is part of the hinged movement holder - I have seen this a couple of times. But there is also an extra hinged dust cover, on the movement ring. There are many types of pocketwatch cases, but I have never seen exactly this design. It is one heavy case!

 Here are some before and after images of the repaired dial.

Finding suitable hands that can be adjusted to fit is always a challenge.

Here is this complicated watch case again. Note the heavy inside dust cover.