Classic watches, watchmaking, antique tools, history, vintage ephemera and more!
Learn about mechanical timepieces and how they work, the history of the American watch industry and especially all about the Elgin National Watch Company! Check back for new content daily.
Although this is technically a blog, the content is not generally in a time-based sequence. You can find interesting items throughout. Down the page some is an alphabetical word cloud of keywords used here. A great way to dig in is to look through those topics and click anything you find interesting. You'll see all the relevant content.
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This movement is a grade 387, 16 size, 17 jewel Elgin, made about 1914.
This private label is extremely unusual having a skeletonized balance cock that, from the engraving work, was almost definitely made at the Elgin factory.
The watch is a grade 58. It's an 18 size movement, 15 jewels, made about 1873.
more about your Elgin watch, look up Elgin serial numbers here.
There's much more at the ElginTime home site!
W. H. Samelius, Chairman
Science of Horology and Technical Board
Answer: Analysing your question, I would suggest you check the corner freedom between the roller jewel and corner of your fork slot. It is possible that the roller jewel is not set square and upright. If the roller jewel is set out of square, the knocking action you mention coming from one direction only might be that the corner of the roller jewel strikes above the corner of the fork slot. By squaring up the roller jewel, the knocking sound will disappear. Then again, the banking screws may be open, giving too much angular motion to the lever so when jewel pin is about to enter, it strikes the curved part of the horn just beyond the corner of the fork. This can be remedied by closing the banks. I am assuming that the side shake for balance pivots are close and that the balance wheel is true, so the arm of the balance does not strike some slight projection of the pallet bridge or pallet bridge screw. Balance pivots with excessive side shake could also give the same trouble as the jewel pin will not enter both sides of the fork slot alike. These are suggestions I trust may prove helpful in locating your trouble.
RWH: If the upper and lower balance pivots are perfectly round and fit the jewel correctly but are of different diameters, will it effect the rating of the watch?
Answer: Pivots of unequal size will result in unequal friction and when the watch is run in dial positions, you will invariably find that the watch will show a faster rate on the larger pivot as compared to the smaller pivot.
ELS: I have several small hard oilstone slips that have become worn, the corners being rounded and the surfaces grooved. How can I restore them to usefulness?
Answer; Procure a sheet of plate glass and with some fine flour emery and water a new surface is quickly acquired. If the stone is badly scored, use a coarses emery powder for quickly rubbing down and then finish with fine powder.
PMI: I have heard about German Silver, what is its composition and is there any silver in it.
Answer; German silver does not contain silver as implied. The proportions commonly given are copper 50 percent, nickel 25 percent and zinc 25 percent. These proportions however, may be varied to suit the various uses for which the German silver is to be used. Varying the proportions will alter the hardness, ductility, mallability, surface polish, elasticity or electrical conductivity.
"So as to be certain when her husband, who works nights, gets in, a woman in Maryland has established the rule that he must punch a CLOCK."
The Importance of Timing
By Elgin National Watch Company
A vast undertaking like one of our major amphibious operations in the Pacific, involving hundreds of fighting ships, escort 'vessels, landing craft, transports, supply vessels and auxiliaries, hundreds of carrier-based and land-based aircraft, and many thousands of combined personnel of the Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard, would be impossible without the close integration made possible by reliable time-keeping instruments.
The very fact that such a tremendous assault on enemy territory can be staged with the utmost precision is in itself a splendid tribute to the man and woman engaged in producing- time-pieces for the armed forces.
So important is the element of timing in an invasion, in fact, that every member of the Navy's amphibious forces is now provided with a water-proof, radium-dialed wristwatch, so that each man can carry out his combat task at the exact second.
On a warship, the chronometer and stopwatch are as vital as guns, for without these timepieces safe and unerring navigation would be out of the question. The chronometer; used in connection with celestial navigation, is essential in determining- the ship's position at any specified moment. The stopwatch, one of the most important of the navigation officer's instruments, is indispensable not only in taking sights, but also in identifying lights by timing the intervals between flashes. It is likewise valuable for checking chronometers and ship's watches against radio time signals.
When it is realized that a slight error in timing might prevent an important rendezvous and thus foredoom a naval engagement, it can be easily understood why the men of the fleet attach so much significance to the accuracy of their timepieces.
To insure maximum efficiency of our naval guns, it is necessary that the time-clocks on various types of fire-control equipment be constantly checked by stopwatch. This instrument also times the rapidity of fire, and the flight of projectiles, among its other vital functions in naval gunnery.
One of the little known but highly essential uses of a stopwatch aboard our fighting ships is to determine how quickly battle stations can be manned when the alarm sounds over the battle-announcing system.
On our submarines, in addition to the navigational aid rendered by various kinds of timers, stopwatches are often used to check on their torpedo fire. By timing the run of a torpedo until it explodes, it is possible to discover which "tin fish" hit which target, even when operating conditions prevent such determination by visual means. The stopwatch is also employed in timing submarine dives, as well as in keeping tabs on the length of time the sea valve is open when firing a torpedo, in order that no excess water enter to upset the delicate "trim" of the craft.
Additionally, the stopwatch is an invaluable aid to our anti-submarine vessels in tracking down Axis undersea raiders, since it helps them figure the rate of speed of the enemy craft they are pursuing.
Timing devices are equally indispensable to our fighting planes. With the flight of all aircraft strictly limited to fuel capacity, it is imperative that the planes be provided with accurate instruments to register elapsed time. Therefore the elapsed time clock is standard equipment on our planes to determine the elapsed time on long missions, such as long range bombings, while an aviation stopwatch is used in much the same manner for shorter operations.
This is the Home version of an 1857 model.
Notice that only the upper pivots are jeweled, so as to give the appearance of more jeweling than the watch actually has.
The hairspring has a clamp that screws to the plate. The spring is not attached at all to the balance cock. The regulator arm also sits friction fir in the plate, and not on the cock.
This is all quite a bit different from all the Elgins I post.
This is a B.W. Raymond edition of this grade. Mr. Raymond was the first president of the National Watch Company. For more more information about Elgin's named movements click here.
But what is unusual here is that some creative repair person has spot wended together two pieces of the spring in order to, I'm guessing, repair a break in the part. This will definitely need to be replaced. Still, at least it's a neat looking bit of work.
creative repairs, click here!
Some earlier lever-set watches are the opposite. There would be a square arbor, male, sticking out of the edge of the movement. The stem part of the case would have a square hole in the end. On such cases the stem does not snap in and out.
This movement is an Elgin grade 114. It's lever-set and so does not need a case with a crown that snaps out.
It's a 16 size, 7 jewel, movement, made about 1895.
Such marks are common and I am frequently asked what they mean. Unfortunately there is no way to know. They had meaning only in a context of the individual watchmaker's records. The marks are today an important part of the character and history of the piece just the same.
Watchmakers' marks are not usually on the visible part of the movement. They'd typically be under the dial, or most commonly, inside the back of the case.
This watch movement is an Elgin grade 114. It is a 16 size, 7 jewel movement, made about 1895.
This case is an older style, having a screw on cap over the neck of the case. The sleeve and stem just sit loose in there, held in by the cap. In this instance, the cap does not screw down all the way on to the top face of the neck. When the cap is on all the way, it leaves some space. You can see this in the photo by comparing the height of the cap with the length of the threaded portion of the neck on the case. The sleeve and stem assembly can move up and down inside the space left inside the cap.
Everything else works and fits. If a new, shorter cap could be found, then the stem would have to be shortened because the crown would stick out too much. As a general rule, we never alter existing parts to match a replacement. So what I think will help to to add a spacer inside the cap to fill the excess space.
Here's how the new part will go. It's a quick job to return it to the lathe to cut is down a bit and round over the top edge so as to conform neatly inside the cap.
Here is the finished and cleaned up spacer and the cap, separate and in place.
The case finally assembled, the cap snug against the top of the neck as before, but now with no free space inside and no up/down play.
- ► 2017 (107)
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- That Elgin Grade 387, the Bushing, More
- Elgin Grade 387, Is That a Bushing?
- Elgin Grade 150
- Elgin Grade 318
- An Unusual Elgin Grade 58, More
- An Unusual Elgin Grade 58
- Information Please!
- The Importance of Timing
- Home Watch Company
- Elgin Grade 184
- A Creative Mainspring Repair
- Elgin Grade 114 and An Interesting Case Adaptor
- Elgin Grade 114 and Watchmakers' Marks
- Improving a Loose Crown
- A Military Watch Thread at the NAWCC
- Case Pins on Older Elgin 18 Size Movements
- Elgin Watch Production Data by Movement Size
- Elgin Grade 55
- A Messy Elgin Grade 55
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